Christ, they really can't wait a single week? The Tories and the Bloc shut down parliament today, and are threatening to do it until they get a confidence vote.
So, a question: What's the difference between Stephen Harper and a screaming two-year old throwing a tantrum? The two-year old has more dignity.
Unbelievable. I've never been a fan of Harper's, but this is really beyond ridiculous at this point. He's being asked to wait one single week, and the moron can't even look dignified in victory. I hope the voters give him and his party of rednecks the spanking they deserve.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
17 comments:
"This Is Ridiculous"
If you’re talking about the words that follow the above quote. You’re absolutely right.
Here is a question. If you left to go out of Town with a friend and during your exit from Town you received a call on your Cell phone and where told that someone has your pin number for your bank account, the combination to your storage yard, the key to your house and that someone was taking items out of all of them. What would you call your friend if he would not turn around and take you back home so you could change the locks, only saying that we’ll be back in town next week anyway so wait until then. Would you still call him a friend?
What should we call you?
The analogy is flawed, to say the least.
Nobody's "left town". Everyone is still in Ottawa, and nobody's losing anything from Parliament being in session for another 7 days. And saying that things are being "stolen" because an elected, and still legitimate government is in power for an extra few hours is probably libelous. You might want to watch that.
A more appropriate analogy would be a preschooler on Wednesday morning, demanding that the weekend arrive Now, now, NOW! Everyone knows how Thursday's budget vote is going to turn out - and if the Conservatives win the election, none of the Liberal spending promises will matter anyway. But rather than get a little work done with parliament before the end, the Conservatives are putting on a charade, pretending that they have power.
Grow up.
My apologies if you cannot make the connection.
“The analogy is flawed, to say the least.”
If by flawed you mean not simple enough for you to grasp, I can’t argue that.
“Nobody's "left town".”
On Friday for a third consecutive day, the Conservatives won a motion - in a 138-57 vote - to shut the House down early. Notice the 57. Although that’s not really the connection I was trying to make.
“Everyone is still in Ottawa, and nobody's losing anything from Parliament being in session for another 7 days.”
It’s not so much the Parliament being in session as much as it is the Liberals spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER HOUR that they have NO right spending.
“And saying that things are being "stolen"”
Do you not watch the news?
“because an elected, and still legitimate government is in power for an extra few hours is probably libelous. You might want to watch that.”
They are NOT LEGITIMATE!!!! (WATCH THAT!) Beside apparently the LAW doesn’t matter under the Liberal Government.
“A more appropriate analogy would be a preschooler on Wednesday morning, demanding that the weekend arrive Now, now, NOW!”
I’ll leave what analogy a preschooler would use to you.
“Everyone knows how Thursday's budget vote is going to turn out - and if the Conservatives win the election, none of the Liberal spending promises will matter anyway.”
They are putting many of their promises in contract form so it will matter!!!
“But rather than get a little work done”
Do you mean more money stolen?
“with parliament before the end, the Conservatives are putting on a charade, pretending that they have power.”
They shut down the illegitimate government didn’t they? That takes a bit of power.
“Grow up.”
I’ll try, but I keep getting dragged down by too much chat with children about things they clearly don’t understand. I think that the first thing I’ll try to change.
In our parliamentary system, a government can only govern legitimately as long as it has the confidence of the House. Once it loses that, it's done. The Liberals lost their right to govern last week. Their "hang on to power at all costs" approach is not only childish, but is a mockery of our system of government. The fact is, the Liberals are running this country without the consent of the governed. That isn't supposed to happen in a democracy.
If the Tories were in power and tried this, I'm guessing you'd be crying foul. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologize. But even though I'm a Tory supporter, if they were doing the same thing, I'd be just as pissed as I am that the Liberals are doing it. It's not mere dislike of the Libs, it's their disregard for our system of government.
-A different anonymous
Okay, first things first: I'm not a Liberal, and frankly don't want to see these guys stick around any longer than necessary. And I'm even less a fan of Paul Martin's than most people - unlike most of the press, I've never been particularly fond of his job as Finance Minister. So when I say that seven days shouldn't be too long to wait, this shouldn't be seen as support for the Liberals, but rather a plea for some civility. Seeing as Anonymous 1's first instinct was to compare me to criminals, and his second instinct was to call me stupid, a plea for civility is probably lost on him.
(I may have a pretty low opinion of Stephen Harper, but I didn't intend for my "immature analogy" to be a slam on all Conservatives. If it was taken as such, I apologize.)
Secondly, please cut the crap about "illegitimate government" and "without the consent of the people". The Liberals were never considered legitimate by the opposition, fine. But to say that the Canadian public, which by the way STILL DOESN'T WANT AN ELECTION, has rejected this government is just wrong. Poll after poll shows that the public a) doesn't want an election, and b) would like Parliament to accomplish something. The Conservatives and Bloc have put A out of reach, and the NDP doesn't have the numbers to make B work either. So we'll get an election, but one that the Canadian people simply don't want.
Look, I think the Liberals are pretty craven after the last week, but the fact is that conventions matter. Last week's vote was not a confidence vote. Period, full stop. Harper can gum up the works all he wants, but that's all he's doing.
And as for whether I would cry fowl if the Tories did this, that may be a fair point. But since this impending election is likely to return a Conservative minority, I'd wager that hypothetical is likely to become a reality. Because if you think that the Conservatives will cling to power with any less determination than the Liberals have, you're kidding yourself.
So here's a deal for you: If Conservatives stop talking about "illegitimate government" and all this hyperbole about incipent fascism and dictatorships, I'll support the Conservatives when they start using every procedural trick in the book to stay in power. If that's not palatable to you, make a counter-offer - we NDPers have been pretty open-minded as of late.
Ridiculous is listening to yet another NDP'er slam the Conservatives for holding the Lieberals to task when your own party sold out to Martin just a few weeks ago. Where was ihe indignation when Layton signed you on to the good ship Freespend? Luckily for the majority, NDP'ers have never had any real vision, as proved by their jumping on to this sinking ship. The NDP is the 'band playing on' while the Liberals go down in flames.
"Sold Out"?
When a political party makes a deal to achieve it's goals, that's not "selling out", that's called politics. I know you disagree with the NDP and the Liberals, but Harper was perfectly willing to work with the NDP and the Bloc early in this Parliament - does that make Harper a socialist or a separatist? I don't think so, though I do think that working with the Bloc is dangerous.
Hell, I'll say here that I would applaud the Conservatives for keeping the Liberals honest, except that's not what they're doing. Shutting down parliament isn't useful protest or criticism.
And complaining about government spending before an election is kind of like complaining about water being wet, isn't it? No Conservative premier ever went in to an election without a similar splurge either - certainly not the Harris conservatives, my most recent point of reference. Complain if you must, but keep it honest - and call me again when PM Harper is lavishing money on Quebec and the Maritimes.
The only reason we haven't had a confidence motion is because the Liberals want to be able to through more money at the provinces. Shutting down Parliament and defeating a vote is CONFIDENCE. There has been a cancellation of Oppositions days as well (don’t you get it!). The vote should have been held immediately - there is precedence for this with the Saskatchewan Parliament and several others. If the shoe was on the other foot you NDPer would be howling! Honestly if you don’t have anything intelligent to say don’t say anything.
As for getting some work done you have to be kidding – Combined there were 57 Liberal/NDP members in the house Friday and more than 150 Con/BLOC. Some parties were there to work but it wasn’t Liberal or NDP. The session in Parliament is done lets get on with it and I am not talking about your whining. Prolonging the inevitable is ridiculous – the next election doesn’t need to wait any longer.
The only reason we haven't had a confidence motion is because the Liberals want to be able to through more money at the provinces. Shutting down Parliament and defeating a vote is CONFIDENCE. There has been a cancellation of Oppositions days as well (don’t you get it!). The vote should have been held immediately - there is precedence for this with the Saskatchewan Parliament and several others. If the shoe was on the other foot you NDPer would be howling! Honestly if you don’t have anything intelligent to say don’t say anything.
As for getting some work done you have to be kidding – Combined there were 57 Liberal/NDP members in the house Friday and more than 150 Con/BLOC. Some parties were there to work but it wasn’t Liberal or NDP. The session in Parliament is done lets get on with it and I am not talking about your whining. Prolonging the inevitable is ridiculous – the next election doesn’t need to wait any longer.
The only reason we haven't had a confidence motion is because the Liberals want to be able to through more money at the provinces. Shutting down Parliament and defeating a vote is CONFIDENCE. There has been a cancellation of Oppositions days as well (don’t you get it!). The vote should have been held immediately - there is precedence for this with the Saskatchewan Parliament and several others. If the shoe was on the other foot you NDPer would be howling! Honestly if you don’t have anything intelligent to say don’t say anything.
As for getting some work done you have to be kidding – Combined there were 57 Liberal/NDP members in the house Friday and more than 150 Con/BLOC. Some parties were there to work but it wasn’t Liberal or NDP. The session in Parliament is done lets get on with it and I am not talking about your whining. Prolonging the inevitable is ridiculous – the next election doesn’t need to wait any longer.
Now that it has been said 3 times all the NDP will believe.
Why should the NDP and Liberals bother to show up, when the opposition has announced it's intention to keep Parliament from working? If you're implacably opposed to this government, I can understand that. But to expect them to show up for a day when your side has announced you're going to prevent anything useful from getting done is silly. You can do the math as well as I - the NDP and Liberals can't get the votes to stop the BQ/Conservative opposition. Why should they bother to show up, if your side won't let any work get done?
And we're not just talking about cash being spent, either - the Cabinet can do that without the Commons, for a while. But important legislation is in committee, and it will die there if the government falls. Of course, I imagine you aren't terribly fond of the gay marriage bill, but it matters to some Canadians.
BTW, are you capable of writing a post that doesn't insult me? I apologized for my earlier lapse. Are you capable of similar civility? I'm open to criticism (and am enjoying this thread) but is it actually too much to ask that we keep it to disagreements, not insults? I'm not going to ban IPs, but I can start ignoring people far more easily.
Secondly, please cut the crap about "illegitimate government" and "without the consent of the people". The Liberals were never considered legitimate by the opposition, fine. But to say that the Canadian public, which by the way STILL DOESN'T WANT AN ELECTION, has rejected this government is just wrong.
The Liberals may not have been my first choice to form the government, but they had a legitimate right to rule up until last week when they lost the confidence of the House, official confidence vote or not. It's fair enough to say that that vote alone shouldn't have forced them to resign. But what it did do was create confidence issues, and create a situation whereby Martin should have called a confidence vote of his own the next day. If he had done that, my respect for him would have increased, because he would have done the right thing even though he knew he'd lose. Instead, he's trying to hold off so that not only some ill Conservative MPs will be missing from the vote, but so he can blame the Bloc and the Tories for all the goodies in the budget that they "voted against". I'm a Maritimer and I know exactly how Martin ran his campaign out here last time, and I know how he will do it again. "The Conservatives are anti-Accord! Look, they voted against the budget!" Nevermind that all the opposition parties asked the government countless times to put it in a separate bill and offered to rush it through that afternoon. The only reason the Accord isn't already passed is because of the Liberals. It just makes me sick to think that his lies might work again.
When have Canadians ever wanted an election? I don't know anyone that wanted one last spring. But I think that Canadians recognize that we do need an election. Absolutely nothing is getting done in Ottawa. People know it. And the only way to fix it is with an election.
-Anonymous 2
"Why should the NDP and Liberals bother to show up, when the opposition has announced it's intention to keep Parliament from working?"
Then they really don't control the government do they should call for at the very least a vote of confidence? Sorry if i hurt you feelings. Yes I am capable of civility. You started it and I throw it right back at you. lol
"Why should the NDP and Liberals bother to show up, when the opposition has announced it's intention to keep Parliament from working?"
Then they really don't control the government do they should call for at the very least a vote of confidence? Sorry if i hurt you feelings. Yes I am capable of civility. You started it and I throw it right back at you. lol
And complaining about government spending before an election is kind of like complaining about water being wet, isn't it?
Are you kidding me? This is not pre-election spending....this is taking his budget and throwing into the trash....Martins' only strong point - his fiscal resume - has gone up in smoke. Fiscal responsibility be damned, he wants to be PM at any cost - even if that means giving Layton cash that only weeks before wasn't available. He is spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave and the NDP is the whore in the bar willing to do whatever it takes to get her hands on the cash.....NDP in bed w/ the Lieberals...who would have thought...
There is no doubt that to some Harper looks excessively anxious, or as you suggest is behaving childishly, to have an election. His behaviour is only the counterpoint to Martin's desperation not to have one. Somehow, when Harper is high in the polls he is deemed to be power hungry. And yet the polls now show he could easily lose.
The fact is that even in a minority situation, most of the power to trigger an election rests with the government. Harper made the call to bring the government down several weeks ago, but so far without success. Why is that? He certainly has the votes to do it.
This recent brinksmanship has been forced upon him by those that have been travelling the low road for some time. I believe it is a truly principled stance. He has pushed forward despite the fact that many have advised him to back off and wait because of the polls.
Moreover, the longer we put this off the more likely we will have a summer election.
It looks to me like this is yet another case of Martin framing the issues and the NDP falling into line. I sometimes wonder why we even need the NDP, except perhaps to do the Liberals' work for them.
BTW, I think Bucky is cool too. Too bad they never commercialized his Dymaxion houses. I would love to live in one.
Post a Comment